Comments on: Female Flight from Computer Science? http://ladygeek.com/archives/438#utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=female-flight-from-computer-science Helping businesses sell technology to women Fri, 28 Oct 2011 19:59:40 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: AVK http://ladygeek.com/archives/438/comment-page-1#comment-1100 AVK Tue, 15 Sep 2009 22:41:59 +0000 http://ladygeek.org.uk/?p=438#comment-1100 In last decade that I work as a programmer (and a women) had shown me a lot. I wasn’t raised in this country, so one thing is I wasn’t stigmatized, that science is too hard for a girl, that many US girls are labeled with. My current ratio in my department is 1 to 17 (5.8%). Two things that makes it more difficult for women in tech: (1) luck of time and (2) luck of testosterone. (1) We, women, don’t have “a wife” to pick up the kid from day care, cook dinner and check homework, we are the ones doing it. Guys on the other hand (most of them in my experience) have sit-at home wife, or if young, have no life, so in extremely competitive world, they have a benefit of “extra-time” and more opportunity to pull-all-nighter when needed. (2) I’m sure it’s sounds funny that women luck testosterone needed for CS job, but reality is often you have to argue your point, your design, your solution, you time estimates with lots of other “big-loud” guys with huge egos, and bull-dog grip. Unless you have an attitude to deal with it, you end up not being heard or recognized. But the last one can also be a benefit of being a women, because using our intuition, we can know what fight is about to break out in which meeting and mitigate the solution that will lead the best results, but without creating confrontation and yielding to all parties feel that they have won something. The only problem with last approach, is often you are respected but not recognized for it. And if you are intimidated by bunch of guys literally yelling at each other in email/meeting/etc and then going out drinking together, if you cannot handle that on every-day basis, dev-job is not for you. And as you can see it has NOTHING to do with your actual abilities or being discriminated against, but if you let this “boys-will-be-boys” attitude get to you, time to change careers (or at least jobs). In last decade that I work as a programmer (and a women) had shown me a lot. I wasn’t raised in this country, so one thing is I wasn’t stigmatized, that science is too hard for a girl, that many US girls are labeled with. My current ratio in my department is 1 to 17 (5.8%). Two things that makes it more difficult for women in tech: (1) luck of time and (2) luck of testosterone. (1) We, women, don’t have “a wife” to pick up the kid from day care, cook dinner and check homework, we are the ones doing it. Guys on the other hand (most of them in my experience) have sit-at home wife, or if young, have no life, so in extremely competitive world, they have a benefit of “extra-time” and more opportunity to pull-all-nighter when needed. (2) I’m sure it’s sounds funny that women luck testosterone needed for CS job, but reality is often you have to argue your point, your design, your solution, you time estimates with lots of other “big-loud” guys with huge egos, and bull-dog grip. Unless you have an attitude to deal with it, you end up not being heard or recognized. But the last one can also be a benefit of being a women, because using our intuition, we can know what fight is about to break out in which meeting and mitigate the solution that will lead the best results, but without creating confrontation and yielding to all parties feel that they have won something. The only problem with last approach, is often you are respected but not recognized for it. And if you are intimidated by bunch of guys literally yelling at each other in email/meeting/etc and then going out drinking together, if you cannot handle that on every-day basis, dev-job is not for you. And as you can see it has NOTHING to do with your actual abilities or being discriminated against, but if you let this “boys-will-be-boys” attitude get to you, time to change careers (or at least jobs).

]]> By: elisabethkelan http://ladygeek.com/archives/438/comment-page-1#comment-547 elisabethkelan Mon, 17 Nov 2008 15:54:32 +0000 http://ladygeek.org.uk/?p=438#comment-547 You are completly right about the 'computers' Take a look at the Nerdette post http://ladygeek.org.uk/?s=nerdette You are completly right about the ‘computers’

Take a look at the Nerdette post
http://ladygeek.org.uk/?s=nerdette

]]> By: Lily http://ladygeek.com/archives/438/comment-page-1#comment-546 Lily Mon, 17 Nov 2008 13:20:51 +0000 http://ladygeek.org.uk/?p=438#comment-546 Good point, after all the very first 'computers' were women, weren't they? Sorry - what is the Nerdette? Good point, after all the very first ‘computers’ were women, weren’t they? Sorry – what is the Nerdette?

]]> By: elisabethkelan http://ladygeek.com/archives/438/comment-page-1#comment-545 elisabethkelan Sun, 16 Nov 2008 18:49:19 +0000 http://ladygeek.org.uk/?p=438#comment-545 I was also surprised by the claim that 25 years ago there were more women in IT. Then again we know that early computer programmers were women (such as the 'ENIAC girls') because hardware was seen as the real deal while software was seen as something women do. Just shows how socially constructed technology connotations are. You might also interested in the post on the Nerdette a while ago. I was also surprised by the claim that 25 years ago there were more women in IT. Then again we know that early computer programmers were women (such as the ‘ENIAC girls’) because hardware was seen as the real deal while software was seen as something women do. Just shows how socially constructed technology connotations are. You might also interested in the post on the Nerdette a while ago.

]]> By: Lily http://ladygeek.com/archives/438/comment-page-1#comment-544 Lily Sun, 16 Nov 2008 17:53:24 +0000 http://ladygeek.org.uk/?p=438#comment-544 Very interesting article! I definitely agree with the negative connotations of the words 'nerd' or 'geek' (which I vaguely touched on in my blog today) but I find the comparison to 25 years ago exaggerating a potentially non-existent point. Only one very specific course at that one university had a 40% female enrollment - in the paragraph above, there's mention of hitting 4% elsewhere. There's no explanation behind the 4% figure, but I'm more likely to believe that that's what the norm was across the country... Very interesting article! I definitely agree with the negative connotations of the words ‘nerd’ or ‘geek’ (which I vaguely touched on in my blog today) but I find the comparison to 25 years ago exaggerating a potentially non-existent point. Only one very specific course at that one university had a 40% female enrollment – in the paragraph above, there’s mention of hitting 4% elsewhere. There’s no explanation behind the 4% figure, but I’m more likely to believe that that’s what the norm was across the country…

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